SPN 5x10

[exsequar]

So I actually NEEDED THAT BOX OF TISSUES NEXT TO ME. Oh my god. Oh my GOD.

I am in deep and complete awe of how well our show pulled this off. This is the motherfucking APOCALYPSE, and people are going to fucking die. What counts is how they go down, and these women went down fucking SWINGING, with dignity and grace and truckloads of courage and heart. I have always been fond of the Harvelle girls, but this episode cemented them as two of my favorite SPN characters in its entire run. That was epic. In the full, traditional, deserves-an-enormous-tragic-poem-written-about-them kind of way.

Character death, at its best, serves to up the stakes in a narrative, demonstrates that there is truly shit on the line here, that the authors are not fucking around. I view Wash's death in Serenity as the best storytelling move I have EVER WITNESSED, because it gave the entire story urgency and a true sense of tragedy, and the fear that anyone could bite the dust at any moment.

This is the first time I've truly felt like the APOCALPYSE is going down. THE APOCALYPSE. You know, the end of the WORLD? Lucifer walking the earth, demons unleashed, chaos and death and pain and the end of normal life as we know it? This is the first time the show made me FEEL anything like that. (The other time this season came close was, interestingly, the other episode with the Harvelles.) Jo and Ellen were exquisite and heartbreaking. That is one of the most powerful scenes this show has ever done. apocalypsos put it beautifully - Ellen and Jo got a sendoff worthy of the WINCHESTERS, and that is a sign of the greatest respect for these characters. If they had to go (and they did - this episode would have had no weight if everyone came out of "their last night on earth" smelling like roses, and no way could the show narratively have done Ellen or Jo's grief justice if only one of them had died) this was the only way to let them go with the weight they deserved.

Jo's bravery was stunning. I started crying as soon as she was down and mauled, and I just kept sobbing harder and harder at her brave little face. At her insistence that her mom treat her like an adult, this one time. Her steely, unwavering resolve that she needed to do this because it was the right thing to do. Not for her own purposes, not to save herself or her mom, but because the world was in trouble and she could do her part to try and help. It's the ultimate tragedy that her sacrifice (and Ellen's) did not achieve what it was meant to (though it did rescue the Winchesters, which will, in the end, mean something, obviously), but that doesn't change the power and grace of her action.

The moment when Ellen realized her little girl had passed made something tear inside me.

Rest in peace, Ellen and Jo Harvelle. And hats off, Alona and Samantha. That was television at its absolute finest. You will be sorely missed.

(Now I'm listening to all the saddest Supernatural songs and making myself sob more. God, this show.)

As for the rest of the episode - that was amazing. I hope this is the tack they'll take for the rest of the season, because while the hilarious episodes have been, well, hilarious, I am more than ready to get down to the dirty business of SAVING THE WORLD. I'm really glad they're getting back to the concept of the four horsemen, though I'm a little confused by the approach. If War was wandering around months ago (beginning of the season!), where have the others been? Did Lucifer let him out first? Was it not as big a deal as releasing Death? Where are the other two (Pestilence and Famine)? Are they as charmingly horrible/horribly charming as War was? Gosh I sure hope so, and I hope we meet them soon. Angels are entertaining and all, but I'm finding the Big Bads of the Apocalypse to be the most riveting, so I'd like to go back to them please.

One thing that I find a little distracting is that Sam and Dean HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE DOING!! They go to where the devil is with - what plan? Sam wanders up, yells a bit, distracts him so Dean can sneak up on the Devil and shoot him in the head? Wow, they are geniuses. *facepalm* I mean, I know they have very little to go on, but they're feeling less like heroes and more like lost little boys. I suppose that's the point, though. They're very much helpless in the face of this. I hope they find their agency at some point though.

Castiel was the most likeable he's been all season in this episode. I hate when they use him as a comedic prop. I think Castiel is amazing when he's being a BADASS ANGEL, you know, like he ACTUALLY IS. So when he was being all mysterious and stoic, teleporting everywhere in an extremely disconcerting manner, and particularly when he was in that ring of fire and staring down the fucking Devil with no doubt in his eyes - that was AMAZING. That's the Castiel I've been missing! The one who descended on that warehouse and took bullets in the chest without blinking, and told Dean "I gripped you tight and raised you from perdition". I like THAT angel. So I was very glad to see his return. He and Lucifer were crazy intense together, I loved it.

I loved the role Bobby played, even when sidelined. Dean called him with such little boy desperation, and Bobby gently yet firmly yanked him back on track, though you can tell his heart is breaking too. That was such a beautiful fatherly scene, and my heart reached out to both of them.

And CROWLEY!!! Omg Mark Sheppard, BE MORE AMAZING. "Then don't miss, MORONS." Heee. <333333 He was super fantabulous, and I really hope they bring him back. I'm very curious about whether Crowley knew that the gun wouldn't kill Lucifer or not! I do have one question about that though - isn't the gun supposed to kill demons? Or did we find out it can kill angels too? Cause Lucifer's an angel!

Speaking of Lucifer - LOVE. Hahahah, but no seriously, Mark Pellegrino is a GEENIUS. I like that he's kind of moved on from trying to convince people that he's just misunderstood, but he's still got this genial everyman-ness to him that is so fucking disconcerting. "Oh hai Death!" Lolwhat! Sam, never say yes to Lucifer, because we'd lose Mark Pellegrino then! ;) "These horsemen are so demanding." Seriously, such brilliant casting.

Everything about this episode was pitch perfect. "Then I am going to spend it with a little thing I call self-respect." She has grown SO MUCH. The character AND the actress. (JOOOOO. ;___;) The fatass banker selling his soul for a bailout (and getting a gay kiss for his efforts, LOL)! That PHOTO! ;___; Nu!Meg was entertaining and bitchy! Oh and there were maybe some Winchesters in this episode, idk. It was kind of stupidly adorable how they were joking about Sam having trust issues with a demon. I cringed, but then Sam loled and they CLINKED BEERS and it was really cute. But the Winchesters really did feel secondary this episode.

HARVELLES. I salute you. ♥

Comments

[musical-emjay.livejournal.com]

Hmm, well, I.....advise you don't look at my reaction post then :/

[exsequar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know. Sorry hon, I just couldn't get through it.

Feminism has its purpose, and believe me, I'm living it. But I also think that part of that is allowing female characters to be hurt as well, because it wouldn't exactly be fair and equal if all the female characters lived all the time. I know that Supernatural has a TERRIBLE record with this, BELIEVE ME, I do. But if you sit down with this episode, take it on its own terms, and appreciate the stellar work that Samantha Ferris and Alona Tal did, I think what we have here is an incredible piece of storytelling and character work. Jo and Ellen went down like HUNTERS, serving a greater cause and staring down their fate with chins high and dignity intact. I don't think there's a greater love letter possible to a character. Do I wish they had more face time this season? Of course I do. But this, for what it is, I think is beautiful.

[musical-emjay.livejournal.com]

See, I absolutely thought it was beautiful. I won't deny for a second the power of that scene, and the way it made me cry like I'm pretty sure I haven't since my grandpa died this summer, but....I just can't take it on its own terms right now. I'm not feeling particularly rational, and the Film Studies major in me is just refusing to let the pattern of all women dying on this show go. Especially because despite the incredible heroism and strength and beauty of their deaths, the deaths themselves were almost immediately thereafter shown to be utterly WORTHLESS. And bringing back two characters that this show hasn't given a shit about for the last two years just to die a needless death for the sake of drama? Doesn't sit well with me, I'm sorry.

[bunnymcfoo.livejournal.com]

I just can't take it on its own terms right now....refusing to let the pattern of all women dying on this show go.

Good for you. That pattern is important.

[bunnymcfoo.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to figure out how to respond to you for over five minutes here, and I gotta tell you, I'm having a real hard time finding words.


It's pretty fucking disappointing to see your voice added to the choir of people who're trying to utterly shut down and dismiss concerns that people have about the misogyny on Supernatural. Which is what you did with I don't want to hear any wank about them killing off girls, because you know what? This is the motherfucking APOCALYPSE, and people are going to fucking die. and But I also think that part of that is allowing female characters to be hurt as well, because it wouldn't exactly be fair and equal if all the female characters lived all the time. because really Anne? Really?

Regardless of how they went out, how brave Ellen and Jo were, how great the writing was, they just killed off the last reoccurring female characters on the show, and you don't see that as problematic?

[exsequar.livejournal.com]

I'll just go to bed hating myself, that's fine. It seems like being a feminist also means not enjoying anything anymore.

i'll possible be able to talk more rationally about this later.

[bunnymcfoo.livejournal.com]

Rereading my comment I do see that I should have edited more carefully because I do come across as accusatory and personally attacking.

There's nothing wrong with liking the episode. There's nothing wrong with thinking that they went out heroes, or with not having a problem that they died. You're right, it's an apocalypse, and people are going to die. I don't think you need to hand in your feminist cred or whatever.

But I do think that shutting down peoples very valid concerns about the episode and its place in the greater picture of how SPN treats women is never a good move.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Hi!

We've known each other a long time or I wouldn't step in here. And I want to say up front that I am not being antagonistic because I really would like to see the wider conversation here happen in a way that would benefit all of us.

I think one of the problems with the SPN is a misogynistic tool of female oppression discussion online is that we all yell at each other. I understand there's anger and I'm not saying watch your tone. But I am saying that Anne posted on her personal lj, she didn't come to yours or mine or X persons and say "shut up about this!" she said here in her own space "I don't want to deal with this."

And my question here is: what's wrong with that? Is it unacceptable to say that you don't want to talk about a contentious issue in your own space?

I don't understand how it's shutting anyone down to say in your own journal that you're not interested in discussing something. It very much is to roll up in a discussion about sexism and say "you're all stupid." However, that's not what happened here.

[exsequar.livejournal.com]

And having gone back and read your post (and the comments) in full (I've had an hour to process and stop crying) I would like to add that you certainly have a point. I am non-contentious by nature, and often let my emotions take the steering wheel, so when something gets me with such emotional power, my skills of logic and what have you tend to take a backseat. You definitely, definitely have a point. The Harvelles' deaths were planned to serve a purpose, and that purpose was to further the drama of the story of the two male leads. Yes. That's true.

But I also think there's a delicate line there. The show is ABOUT two men. That is the core concept. Two men thoroughly and completely alienated from society. Do I wish that there were women more frequently and substantially in their lives? Of course I do. I wish Ellen and Jo had set up shop in the backseat of the Impala for a while and done some foursome hunting. However, that's not how this story works. It's about two brothers against the world. Bobby swings in more often than not, lately, and Castiel is always loitering about, but narratively, the story is about how Sam and Dean are so thoroughly entangled that nothing can break in. I don't think there could have been any possible organic way to keep Ellen and Jo in the story with much more regularity. Bobby has taken on the father figure in Sam and Dean's life, and Castiel is a frickin angel, so there are solid reasons that Sam and Dean turn to them for help. But they're independent and solitary by nature, so it wouldn't really make sense for them to run to Ellen and Jo with any frequency. The Harvelles were out in the world kicking ass and taking names (and I would SO read that fic) but I don't think they had a place in the Winchesters' daily world.

Sorry to ramble at you. I don't like seeing you so upset though and I thought I'd try to ramble my way to some sort of reassuring points. Idk if it worked!

[trinity_clare]

WORDY MCWORD. GAH. I LOVE THEM ALL SO MUCH.

(No, seriously, even the characters I normally don't care at all about.)

[wordsalone.livejournal.com]

I feel like I'm one of those gals who rarely gives a crap what happens to female characters. And that sounds terrible and sort of makes me feel like a "bad" girl, but at the same time, it's just how I am. But when I do get pissy about the way females/minorities are treated, I'm not quiet about it.

Female characters in the Supernatural universe are a tricky thing. After a few episodes of the first season, I started to get really annoyed with the way the show portrayed women, but then I realized that every week is like a horror story. What happens in horror flicks? The girl gets killed. The girl needs to be rescued. The girl is the sexual object. Do I always like it? No. But I love the Winchesters and I love that they fight, so I get over it. And I've found there there are a lot of female characters on this show that I have liked! Loved even. They're not always a part of the series in multiple arcs, but they make an impact.

Jamie from the Monster Movie? I REALLY freaking liked her. SHE'S the one who kills the bad guy! Yeah, she gets kidnapped first but so does Dean. But she's beautiful and thoughtful and sassy. Cool chick. And you know what? Sleeping with Dean Winchester/being attracted to Dean Winchester is not a crime. She helped save the day and she got a nice night out of it? Good for her.

Jo and Ellen. JO AND ELLEN. I was never Jo's biggest fan but I did like her. This past episode made me love her though and I wish we had the chance to see more of this Jo. She was always in there of course, but she was a bit more grown up. I did the happy dance of happy when she turned Dean down. And I love how freaking brave she was. She knew that there was no way she was going to make it and she was thinking like a good fighter/hunter/person when she said she would stay behind. Ellen was an AMAZING character that I fell head over heels for as soon as she popped up in the series. I just...I can't even express how much I adored her. The fact that she stayed with her girl and also willingly sacrificed herself for the cause is so noble.

I know a lot of people are pissed off that Kripke killed two of the remaining female characters but like you said, this is the apocalypse. This is war. I wish that one of them had survived but it's not my show so...yeah. I expect a lot more death and destruction. I don't know that Bobby's going to make it. Same goes for Castiel. And that FUCKING SUCKS. But it's the end of the world.

Regarding Castiel, I know he's not your favorite character but I really like what you said about him here. The more Castiel episodes I've seen, the more I realize that as amused as I was by Castiel in 5x03, it was totally out of character, especially that line at the end to Raphael. Misha has said that he hopes that Castiel becomes more human and I don't mind that elements of his personality change. His place in heaven has been significantly altered and the Winchesters & Co. are like an extended family to him. So the thing with the drinking with the Harvelles? I loved that. I REALLY want to know how they got him to do that. But Castiel being a badass? HELL YES. He needs to be clever and strong and awesome. He knows that he's in this to fight and if he has to die then so be it. I LOVED when he threw Meg down and stepped on her. I was screaming at the screen, telling him to do it, and he did! Woot! THAT is what I wanted to see.

And now I'll stop rambling. <3

[caithream.livejournal.com]

Yes yes yes. Seriously, IF I COULD TRULY EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW MUCH I CRIED. A lot. And, the only thing I'm going to say on the matter, for me it feels as if it's always been the fact that every support and lifeline that the Winchesters have have been and will be slowly eradicated so in the end it WILL be just them. I really am beginning to believe that Castiel isn't going to make it through to the end either, giving his own martyrdom up in some way, so it really will be Winchesters vs. everything else, semi-unlike the finale for season 2. So. Yes.

HAHA omg, with the Winchesters seriously having no idea what their doing is totally true and makes me lol. And YES YES about Castiel and YES! about the Winchesters seeming to be secondary in the episode. I'm so excited to see what the second half of the season will bring.

[ethrosdemon.livejournal.com]

Oh. Good call on the gun not killing Lucifer because he's an angel. But Lucifer says there are only five beings, would that mean just archangels? Like it could kill Castiel, but not Gabriel?

I am still on the fence about the new Meg. I'm sure I'll like her when she's around more (and ditching Lucifer to join up w/ the motley anti-apocalypse crew, who are going to be WHO? Crowley and his posse, Castiel and Anna and the hunters? Wow. Good thing they have Becky.)

it's you sister(:

[sunnydaze162.livejournal.com]

heyy annie. just one little comment :
"I do have one question about that though - isn't the gun supposed to kill demons? Or did we find out it can kill angels too? Cause Lucifer's an angel!"

when the colt was first introduced to us, it was said that 'this gun can kill anything.' remember? vampires, demons, angels, anything.

and about jo and ellen dying, i didn't like how all of the sudden dean's feelings just came rushing back, when he hadn't given jo a second thought for 2 years. but i did think that their deaths were honorable, and i understand why women don't survive on this show. it's just that kind of show, it's kind of necesssary.

okay im done rambling. love you <3